2017-11-22 21:00:58 <a-l-e>	good evening
2017-11-22 21:01:20 <frank__>	Hi there.
2017-11-22 21:01:37 <laraaaa>	hi all
2017-11-22 21:01:43 <alewwb>	hi!
2017-11-22 21:04:50 <frank__>	Since there's a little pause, let me give a brief update.
2017-11-22 21:05:01 <frank__>	I'm going to send out the SPI letter next week.
2017-11-22 21:05:32 <frank__>	I'm also working to get information about global fundraising from Nate. I expect to get something from him in the next few weeks.
2017-11-22 21:06:10 <frank__>	Even without the SPI arrangement in place, we can still raise money, and it seems good to start with past sponsors.
2017-11-22 21:06:31 <frank__>	Please share any other prospects that come to mind.
2017-11-22 21:06:41 <a-l-e>	frank__, the problem is: where to put the raised money...
2017-11-22 21:07:20 <frank__>	Indeed. If we get a commitment, I can incorporate an organization in less than 48 hours.
2017-11-22 21:07:26 <frank__>	It just wouldn't be a certified non-profit.
2017-11-22 21:07:45 <frank__>	Which would hurt fundraising a little but would be better than nothing.
2017-11-22 21:08:42 <frank__>	There's also a non-profit that I used to work with in the technology space that might be able to handle the money. I'm going to meet with somebody next week.
2017-11-22 21:08:51 <frank__>	It's not a permanent fix, of course.
2017-11-22 21:08:53 <a-l-e>	afaict the biggest issue is that nobody should pay taxes on the collected money... at least not personally.
2017-11-22 21:09:48 <frank__>	We would structure it as expense reimbursements. That's how FontForge does it.
2017-11-22 21:10:31 <a-l-e>	and it would help if it could handle euros as a "native" currency.
2017-11-22 21:10:59 <frank__>	That might be difficult, but there's nothing that stops us from having a second organization in Europe.
2017-11-22 21:11:21 <frank__>	I don't know the incorporation rules there, but it can't be that much more difficult than it is here.
2017-11-22 21:11:59 <a-l-e>	the fact is that most reimbursement will be in euros.
2017-11-22 21:12:35 <frank__>	Indeed. But I think that a lot of the fundraising may be in dollars.
2017-11-22 21:13:18 <frank__>	What if we set up two organizations, raise money on both sides, and then just have one exchange transaction to make up the difference?
2017-11-22 21:14:26 <frank__>	The big thing is getting a volunteer to incorporate the European organization.
2017-11-22 21:14:44 <frank__>	And to operate it.
2017-11-22 21:15:26 <alewwb>	In Spain to set up an organization you need 3 people at least
2017-11-22 21:15:43 <alewwb>	at least in the 'papers')
2017-11-22 21:15:50 <a-l-e>	in switzerland you theoretically need 3 people...
2017-11-22 21:16:25 <a-l-e>	anyway, we have not managed to set up 1 way to collect money... i don't think it's realistic to want to set up two...
2017-11-22 21:16:27 <laraaaa>	i think its the same in the uk
2017-11-22 21:17:05 <frank__>	Okay. Let me set up one here, and if the Euro conversion becomes a problem, we can try to set up one there.
2017-11-22 21:19:08 <pippin>	having yet another u.s. based org for global volunteering is bad :(
2017-11-22 21:19:37 <frank__>	What are the rules in Germany?
2017-11-22 21:20:27 <a-l-e>	the problem is not creating an association. but creating an association that can manage (well) the little money at a global (or at least european) level.
2017-11-22 21:21:10 <frank__>	In the United States, any organization can do that. The difficulty is in making contributions tax-deductible.
2017-11-22 21:21:17 <frank__>	That is the point of the SPI outreach.
2017-11-22 21:21:21 <a-l-e>	in most european country, as far as i know, you have to check what are the rules for VAT and other taxes.
2017-11-22 21:21:36 <pippin>	also for global fund-raising, I think it is more realistic to funnel money into whichever organization the local organizers is using for their money handling
2017-11-22 21:21:56 <a-l-e>	you can read about boud's odyssey...
2017-11-22 21:22:03 <pippin>	frank__: organization thats are tax deductible for u.s. entities likely will not be for european entities - and vice versa
2017-11-22 21:22:17 <frank__>	That's a good idea, particularly since we're only doing it this way until the SPI thing happens.
2017-11-22 21:22:26 <a-l-e>	yes, but tax deducibility is the smallest problem.
2017-11-22 21:22:43 <pippin>	a-l-e: this leads to a bad habit of charity worthy global organizations ending up being us entities
2017-11-22 21:22:54 <laraaaa>	pippin: would that make reimbursement local org's responsibility?
2017-11-22 21:23:46 <frank__>	Sevilla ale, do you have an organization to manage finances yet?
2017-11-22 21:23:54 <alewwb>	nope
2017-11-22 21:24:11 <alewwb>	we don't have finances yet, in fact :)
2017-11-22 21:24:24 <frank__>	A classic chicken and egg problem.
2017-11-22 21:24:27 <pippin>	for local sponsorship/funds having at least a bank-account of some form is advisable
2017-11-22 21:25:08 <laraaaa>	that is true, but if it does make reimbursements local work, i would disagree with it
2017-11-22 21:26:08 <frank__>	We could globalize most of the administrative overhead and just send a list of checks to issue.
2017-11-22 21:26:38 <pippin>	frank__: checks? - which century are we in?
2017-11-22 21:26:50 <a-l-e>	as i wrote in my email, we don't have to set up a reimbursement system... but we sould make it clear if we will have one (that works) or not.
2017-11-22 21:26:50 *	a-l-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-11-22 21:26:52 <laraaaa>	:)
2017-11-22 21:27:03 *	a-l-e (~a-l-e@31.24.13.70) has joined
2017-11-22 21:27:06 <frank__>	How else would we do it?
2017-11-22 21:27:21 <pippin>	frank__: bank/wire-transfers
2017-11-22 21:27:34 <frank__>	That's a lot of work across national borders, no?
2017-11-22 21:27:52 <a-l-e>	sorry, in many european country there are no checks anymore.
2017-11-22 21:28:01 <a-l-e>	in europe iban payments are for free.
2017-11-22 21:28:35 <a-l-e>	(or cheap)
2017-11-22 21:28:42 <pippin>	the only times I ever have received reimbursement by check in post... it was a major hassle, after that - also u.s. entities reimbursing me have done it electronically
2017-11-22 21:29:16 <a-l-e>	yes, the entity doing the reimbursement must be able to do it based on iban numbers.
2017-11-22 21:29:30 <a-l-e>	imo.
2017-11-22 21:30:05 <frank__>	In that case, I think that we need to prioritize getting a European organization and a European bank account.
2017-11-22 21:30:19 <frank__>	The local event will need to have one either way, I imagine.
2017-11-22 21:30:33 <a-l-e>	otherwise, we can continue with the canadian association.
2017-11-22 21:30:35 <frank__>	If we can set up a second one, that would be great.
2017-11-22 21:30:43 <pippin>	I do think it is a valid option to *not* do reimbursements as lgm, but make use of organizations like pixls.us - for raising and sponsoring travel costs for attendees
2017-11-22 21:30:45 <frank__>	Actually, I think that Louis said that he absolutely cannot do it.
2017-11-22 21:31:03 <frank__>	(Using the Canadian organization.)
2017-11-22 21:31:50 <a-l-e>	it does not have to be him doing it.
2017-11-22 21:32:08 <frank__>	Could somebody else use his organization?
2017-11-22 21:32:20 <a-l-e>	no idea, but i guess yes.
2017-11-22 21:32:28 <a-l-e>	but the burden seems to be huge.
2017-11-22 21:33:02 <a-l-e>	that having been said, you need some sort of care when handling money for international attendees.
2017-11-22 21:33:16 <a-l-e>	Iif you want to avoid tax problems)
2017-11-22 21:33:46 <a-l-e>	you can read here what can happen: https://krita.org/en/item/krita-foundation-in-trouble/
2017-11-22 21:34:14 <alewwb>	In Spain I think you don't have to pay taxes for attending an educational event
2017-11-22 21:35:20 <frank__>	In the States, the cost is tax-deductible (or the reimbursement tax-neutral) as long as the event is somehow work-related.
2017-11-22 21:35:38 <frank__>	And I think that that's a reasonable claim for about any of us to make.
2017-11-22 21:36:45 <frank__>	And that's the individual's responsibility.
2017-11-22 21:36:49 <a-l-e>	as said, the tax deducible part is probably not that important.
2017-11-22 21:36:49 <alewwb>	does anybody know any specialist in this matter?
2017-11-22 21:36:59 <frank__>	For all countries?
2017-11-22 21:37:08 <alewwb>	in Europe at least
2017-11-22 21:37:16 *	jghali_ heißt jetzt jghali
2017-11-22 21:37:22 <alewwb>	probably with some advice we could do it better
2017-11-22 21:37:56 <frank__>	Well let's be on the look-out for that.
2017-11-22 21:38:28 <alewwb>	I've friends in Goteo, a well known crowdfunding platform that operates in Europe
2017-11-22 21:38:34 <alewwb>	I'll ask them
2017-11-22 21:38:43 <frank__>	Great.
2017-11-22 21:39:36 <frank__>	Reimbursements are little over the horizon right now, thankfully, but raising money needs to start fairly quickly. I think that we can get commitments without having the legal details in place.
2017-11-22 21:41:15 *	___colm (~Thunderbi@213.219.152.245) has joined
2017-11-22 21:41:18 <frank__>	So perhaps we all start looking into local rules on these matters but also thinking about prospective sponsors.
2017-11-22 21:41:21 <a-l-e>	well, all i'm interesed in right now, is to find as as possible a "solution" (or non solution) for the reimbursements.
2017-11-22 21:42:09 <a-l-e>	for the long term, frank__, i think that pippin and myself have given some hints to make it a succesfull project...
2017-11-22 21:42:30 <frank__>	That is important, but it's also for naught if we don't have money for those reimbursements. Would you object to soliciting sponsors in advance of having the reimbursement rules in place?
2017-11-22 21:43:02 <a-l-e>	the problem is that in the call for participation we have to write a sentence about the reimbursements.
2017-11-22 21:43:24 <a-l-e>	and this is has to be done soonish.
2017-11-22 21:43:35 <frank__>	Well even if we have the rules in place and even the lead list, we don't know how much money we will have.
2017-11-22 21:43:41 <alewwb>	but if we don't set up an european org and the Canadian one is not available?
2017-11-22 21:43:42 <alewwb>	we cannot manage any resources then?
2017-11-22 21:44:16 <frank__>	We can get the money where it needs to go somehow. The question is how easy it will be to satisfy regulatory requirements and whether we will need to pay taxes.
2017-11-22 21:45:03 <frank__>	I think that not having any money in the first place is much more likely to be a problem than having piles of money encumbered such that we can't distribute.
2017-11-22 21:46:14 <frank__>	If European and Canadian efforts fail, I know for sure that I can set up an American organization to collect and to distribute money and that most recipients would not be obligated to pay U. S. taxes on it.
2017-11-22 21:46:44 <frank__>	The one caveat would be sending money to countries that are sanctioned.
2017-11-22 21:47:38 <frank__>	Iran, Sudan, North Korea, and maybe two others.
2017-11-22 21:47:54 <frank__>	But I don't know whether European organizations can send there anyway.
2017-11-22 21:48:58 *	alewwb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-11-22 21:49:16 <frank__>	We have so many options for dealing with this (using the local organization, using a non-certified organization in the States, using an affiliated non-profit in the States, incorporating another organization in Europe, using lots of satellite organizations as Pippin suggested), that I don't think that we will fail on this point.
2017-11-22 21:49:28 <a-l-e>	frank__, can you please write the exact conditions for a us based organization.
2017-11-22 21:50:33 <a-l-e>	costs for making the payments, if it can do iban payments to EU accounts, what is needed to make the collected money not taxated.
2017-11-22 21:51:28 <frank__>	Sure. I'll write something up by middle of next week. (This week is sort of a mess with the Thanksgiving holiday.)
2017-11-22 21:52:26 <a-l-e>	... and how the reimbursement process would work.
2017-11-22 21:52:37 <frank__>	Indeed.
2017-11-22 21:53:26 <frank__>	I'll also type up a proposal for how we would use a local organization for global reimbursements with minimal local administrative overhead.
2017-11-22 21:53:45 <a-l-e>	so, now we lost ale for discussing the call for participation.
2017-11-22 21:54:17 <frank__>	Did the call for participation last year make any mention of reimbursement?
2017-11-22 21:54:27 <a-l-e>	yes, i think so.
2017-11-22 21:54:52 <frank__>	Did we fulfill those terms?
2017-11-22 21:55:07 <a-l-e>	yes
2017-11-22 21:55:22 <a-l-e>	"If your trip is not already funded otherwise, LGM will attempt to cover your travel costs afterwards (travel only, no accommodation or meals), within the limits of our budget. For this year we will have some restrictions - and refunding usually only takes place several months after the conference itself."
2017-11-22 21:55:47 <a-l-e>	afaik there was no money available so ne reimbursement has been made... which (sadly) fits the promise.
2017-11-22 21:55:52 <frank__>	I think that's sufficiently equivocal to use again.
2017-11-22 21:56:02 <a-l-e>	(and i would love to avoid doing the same this year)
2017-11-22 21:56:16 <frank__>	And I am confident that we will achieve at least partial reimbursement this time.
2017-11-22 21:56:51 <frank__>	We've succeeded at it before, we've learned from failure, and we're working to succeed again.
2017-11-22 21:57:07 *	alewwb (~alewwb@2a02:c7d:ca61:3d00:1519:3666:8f47:cf7) has joined
2017-11-22 21:58:00 <frank__>	alewwb: Welcome back. We were just discussing the call for participation and accompanying verbiage regarding reimbursement.
2017-11-22 21:58:13 <alewwb>	sorry guys, my connection is going and coming
2017-11-22 21:58:53 <frank__>	So as a recap, we promised last year to reimburse within budgetary constraints. Budget was zero, so nobody got anything, but we didn't lie.
2017-11-22 21:58:54 <a-l-e>	personally, i'd love to put the finances on the side and check the state of the CFP...
2017-11-22 21:59:22 <frank__>	CFP?
2017-11-22 21:59:30 <frank__>	Ah.
2017-11-22 21:59:35 <frank__>	So obvious I missed it.
2017-11-22 21:59:40 <frank__>	Continue.
2017-11-22 21:59:55 <alewwb>	the draft is here:
2017-11-22 21:59:56 <alewwb>	https://hackmd.io/EYVghgbALA7AnAJgLQQKZwBxKg4BjJYAMzxiQyIBMBmYUVEBMaoA?both
2017-11-22 22:00:30 <a-l-e>	alewwb, was the english version proofread?
2017-11-22 22:00:40 <alewwb>	proofread?
2017-11-22 22:01:02 <laraaaa>	checked for spelling and grammar :)
2017-11-22 22:01:16 <alewwb>	it isn't checked yet
2017-11-22 22:01:22 <a-l-e>	ok
2017-11-22 22:01:44 <alewwb>	but it's heavily copied from 2016's one, it should be more or less ok
2017-11-22 22:01:50 <alewwb>	:)
2017-11-22 22:02:36 <frank__>	The first sentence is a little awkward. I'll send proposed changes by e-mail.
2017-11-22 22:02:44 <alewwb>	it's a pad
2017-11-22 22:02:49 <alewwb>	propose them in there! :)
2017-11-22 22:04:07 <frank__>	Will do.
2017-11-22 22:05:59 <frank__>	We're approaching the end of our time. Any other comments?
2017-11-22 22:06:26 <alewwb>	we might talk about timing a bit?
2017-11-22 22:06:36 <a-l-e>	"As LGM has a focus on being a meeting and not just a conference, the hallway track is an important part with - like the lightning talks, at LGM self-organized collaborations and explorations of ideas."
2017-11-22 22:06:50 <a-l-e>	i don't really get the second part of the sentence...
2017-11-22 22:07:12 <alewwb>	I think pippin  suggested that
2017-11-22 22:07:45 <alewwb>	so, coming back to timing we need to think about when opening CFP
2017-11-22 22:08:02 <alewwb>	in order to do so, do we have to make any decission regarding finances?
2017-11-22 22:08:32 <alewwb>	besides that is a matter of giving some days to suggest changes in the draft
2017-11-22 22:08:39 <frank__>	Since fundraising fell apart, we have no track record and little idea of how much money we will have.
2017-11-22 22:08:50 <frank__>	I think that using the statement from last year is the best that we can do.
2017-11-22 22:08:57 <frank__>	"If your trip is not already funded otherwise, LGM will attempt to cover your travel costs afterwards (travel only, no accommodation or meals), within the limits of our budget. For this year we will have some restrictions - and refunding usually only takes place several months after the conference itself."
2017-11-22 22:09:05 <frank__>	(Recopying since you lost your connection when ale posted.)
2017-11-22 22:09:10 <alewwb>	ok
2017-11-22 22:09:26 <frank__>	I think that we can do better this time, but we can't promise anything.
2017-11-22 22:09:38 <alewwb>	ok, so my proposal is:
2017-11-22 22:09:42 <laraaaa>	I'd like to suggest State of Libre Graphics in the second half of the call - is somehow breaks the flow - if all agree...
2017-11-22 22:09:43 <alewwb>	to put that in the form
2017-11-22 22:10:18 <laraaaa>	oops, sorry - you moved back to finances
2017-11-22 22:10:24 <alewwb>	:)
2017-11-22 22:10:26 <frank__>	I agree with that proposal, though.
2017-11-22 22:10:52 <a-l-e>	laraaaa, switching state of libre graphics and "participate"? i agree...
2017-11-22 22:11:11 <laraaaa>	yep, that's wot i meant
2017-11-22 22:11:41 <alewwb>	State of the Libre Graphics could be the first block in the Participate section
2017-11-22 22:13:49 <laraaaa>	i'm meddling with the first sentence
2017-11-22 22:15:26 <laraaaa>	yeah
2017-11-22 22:16:20 <alewwb>	better!
2017-11-22 22:16:27 <laraaaa>	yup
2017-11-22 22:16:57 <laraaaa>	we need something else there - just a sec
2017-11-22 22:17:39 <laraaaa>	Maybe main programme instead of Focuses
2017-11-22 22:17:48 <alewwb>	agree
2017-11-22 22:17:53 <laraaaa>	or program whichever spelling you prefer
2017-11-22 22:17:54 <alewwb>	makes sense with the new order
2017-11-22 22:18:36 <laraaaa>	yeah, i think that work now
2017-11-22 22:18:55 <laraaaa>	what others think?
2017-11-22 22:21:10 <frank__>	A few little things. Just a moment.
2017-11-22 22:22:42 *	supertobi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-11-22 22:22:46 <frank__>	I changed a few plurals/singulars to match.
2017-11-22 22:22:56 <frank__>	The specific focuses part in the format section isn't very clear.
2017-11-22 22:23:12 <laraaaa>	yup - good one
2017-11-22 22:23:26 <frank__>	Can we say instead "Given these constraints, we will prioritize workshops and other interactive formats this year."?
2017-11-22 22:23:48 <laraaaa>	yep
2017-11-22 22:23:58 <laraaaa>	i'm okay with that
2017-11-22 22:24:14 <laraaaa>	it can be just other formats
2017-11-22 22:24:56 <alewwb>	yes
2017-11-22 22:25:09 <frank__>	"As LGM has a focus on being a meeting and not just a conference, the hallway track is an important part with - like the lightning talks, at LGM self-organized collaborations and explorations of ideas."
2017-11-22 22:25:18 <frank__>	We still need to fix this one.
2017-11-22 22:25:23 <frank__>	It seems like it got lost in transit.
2017-11-22 22:25:33 <laraaaa>	ok,
2017-11-22 22:25:34 <frank__>	pippin: Do you remember what it was supposed to say?
2017-11-22 22:26:41 <laraaaa>	what is the halway track?
2017-11-22 22:26:44 *	a-l-e_ (~ale@21.37.3.213.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch) has joined
2017-11-22 22:26:45 <laraaaa>	is this talks?
2017-11-22 22:26:51 <laraaaa>	hallway
2017-11-22 22:28:27 <alewwb>	Not only the content itself, the position is a bit odd
2017-11-22 22:28:40 <alewwb>	it could be in the first block, because it's a general appreciation
2017-11-22 22:29:21 <frank__>	How about this?
2017-11-22 22:29:23 <frank__>	"As LGM has a focus on being a meeting and not just a conference, the hallway track is an important part of the experience. Self-organized collaborations and explorations routinely serve to advance cross-project objectives."
2017-11-22 22:29:40 <frank__>	I know it still sounds like big-corporation-speak, but it gets the message across.
2017-11-22 22:30:14 <frank__>	Assuming I got the message right.
2017-11-22 22:30:44 <laraaaa>	i'm tempted to drop that sentence completely
2017-11-22 22:30:49 <frank__>	That works too.
2017-11-22 22:30:52 <alewwb>	yeas
2017-11-22 22:30:53 <alewwb>	yes
2017-11-22 22:31:04 <alewwb>	because it's not clear what we want to say with it
2017-11-22 22:31:17 <alewwb>	are we asking for something? to participate in informal chats?
2017-11-22 22:31:21 <laraaaa>	ok then, it's gone :)
2017-11-22 22:31:21 *	a-l-e_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-11-22 22:32:10 <frank__>	I would hope and expect that our existing group culture will continue to facilitate those interactions.
2017-11-22 22:32:35 <alewwb>	:)
2017-11-22 22:33:08 <laraaaa>	i get what is was - as i'm going through the old call
2017-11-22 22:33:33 <frank__>	Oh well. It lived by the sword and died by the sword.
2017-11-22 22:33:51 <laraaaa>	it was meant to give (instead of theme) wee bit more juice on selection process
2017-11-22 22:34:04 <alewwb>	so we agree with the current draft?
2017-11-22 22:34:27 <laraaaa>	but i think that the short intro after participate is sufficiently communicating rationale
2017-11-22 22:34:48 <frank__>	I like the current draft.
2017-11-22 22:34:56 <laraaaa>	me too
2017-11-22 22:35:05 <frank__>	Any objections to ratifying it today?
2017-11-22 22:35:20 <laraaaa>	just create pages in worde press
2017-11-22 22:35:52 <laraaaa>	otherwise dead links
2017-11-22 22:37:05 <frank__>	So approve putting this up when the other pages are ready?
2017-11-22 22:37:30 <frank__>	Objections?
2017-11-22 22:37:30 <laraaaa>	yes,
2017-11-22 22:37:51 <frank__>	(I assume that was an approval and not an objection.)
2017-11-22 22:38:07 <laraaaa>	approval, for sure :)
2017-11-22 22:38:20 <frank__>	Hehe.
2017-11-22 22:38:24 <frank__>	Anybody else?
2017-11-22 22:39:22 *	alewwb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-11-22 22:40:30 <laraaaa>	ok, looks like all left
2017-11-22 22:40:31 *	alewwb (~alewwb@90.207.180.228) has joined
2017-11-22 22:40:34 <frank__>	By lack of objections, the motion is hereby approved.
2017-11-22 22:41:01 <a-l-e>	for me there are few sentence that are a bit too "complex"... but overall ok...
2017-11-22 22:41:35 <a-l-e>	"The 2018 instalment of Libre Graphics Meeting (LGM) will take place" ... The Libre Graphics Meeting 2018 (LGM) will take place
2017-11-22 22:41:50 <frank__>	I do like that better.
2017-11-22 22:42:03 <frank__>	Any others?
2017-11-22 22:43:13 <a-l-e>	"We begin each meeting with a joint session "... "on the first day, we will have a joint session"
2017-11-22 22:43:24 <laraaaa>	check the abbreviation pls
2017-11-22 22:43:50 <a-l-e>	"that brings together all things that have happened in our wide landscape over the last year" ... "whoing what has happend during the past year"
2017-11-22 22:44:39 <frank__>	Whoin?
2017-11-22 22:44:42 <laraaaa>	i kind of like the installment, but if majority is in support of a-l-e's suggestion, i'm game
2017-11-22 22:44:43 <frank__>	Whoing?
2017-11-22 22:45:46 <a-l-e>	i'm not making the changes in the textg because is a matter of style...
2017-11-22 22:46:09 <a-l-e>	... personally, i like text that are kept as simple as necessary...
2017-11-22 22:46:45 <frank__>	I'm not terribly partial to one or another, but, since we tend to brand each event independently, I like having LGM 2018 as a unified term.
2017-11-22 22:47:35 <a-l-e>	ok, it's time for some sleep here!
2017-11-22 22:47:41 <a-l-e>	have a good night!
2017-11-22 22:48:02 <laraaaa>	yes, me too, ready to retire
2017-11-22 22:48:51 <laraaaa>	can we - just before you go, agree on the draft
2017-11-22 22:48:55 <frank__>	Okay. Let's publish as it stands then.
2017-11-22 22:49:10 <laraaaa>	ok, i'm happy with that
2017-11-22 22:49:11 <frank__>	However that may be.
2017-11-22 22:49:25 <frank__>	alewwb: are you still here?
2017-11-22 22:49:52 <frank__>	I'll send him an e-mail.
2017-11-22 22:49:55 <alewwb>	yes
2017-11-22 22:50:01 *	supertobi (~tobias@xd9bf3213.dyn.telefonica.de) has joined
2017-11-22 22:50:01 <frank__>	Ah. Okay.
2017-11-22 22:50:30 <frank__>	Go ahead and post the call whenever the supporting pages are up.
2017-11-22 22:50:34 <frank__>	It looks good to all of us.
2017-11-22 22:50:39 <alewwb>	ok, perfect
2017-11-22 22:50:42 <alewwb>	:)
2017-11-22 22:50:51 <frank__>	Alright. Goodbye everybody.
2017-11-22 22:50:56 <alewwb>	so, good night everybody!
2017-11-22 22:51:09 <laraaaa>	bye all